Release plans

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Release plans

Alexandre Julliard
Folks,

I just released 20050930, this should be considered the pre-0.9
release, so please give it some good testing. In particular, please
test the things that new users will encounter first, like the
automatic .wine creation and winecfg.

Even if you normally build from source, please for once try the binary
package for your distro and check if you spot anything the packager is
doing wrong.

Bugzilla has had a good cleanup lately (thanks guys!) and most of the
irrelevant bugs have been closed, so please have a look at the
remaining ones to see if there's anything you know how to fix.

We also still need many documentation updates, so please consider
helping with that.

If you have scripts that handle releases, now is the time to ensure
they can cope with a version number not in the YYYYMMDD format...

If all goes well, and if the documentation is updated by then, the
real 0.9 should be released in a couple of weeks.  In the meantime we
should consider ourselves in a code freeze, so please don't submit new
features or large changes, only small bug fixes will be allowed in.

Thanks everybody for your help, it has been a long trip but we are
getting there...

--
Alexandre Julliard
[hidden email]


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Re: Release plans

Vijay Kiran Kamuju
I think we need some more clean up of bugzilla, we need to close bugs
till 2003/04 which have not updates since 6 months. And also those
which cannot be replicatable.

bye,
Vijay

On 9/30/05, Alexandre Julliard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I just released 20050930, this should be considered the pre-0.9
> release, so please give it some good testing. In particular, please
> test the things that new users will encounter first, like the
> automatic .wine creation and winecfg.
>
> Even if you normally build from source, please for once try the binary
> package for your distro and check if you spot anything the packager is
> doing wrong.
>
> Bugzilla has had a good cleanup lately (thanks guys!) and most of the
> irrelevant bugs have been closed, so please have a look at the
> remaining ones to see if there's anything you know how to fix.
>
> We also still need many documentation updates, so please consider
> helping with that.
>
> If you have scripts that handle releases, now is the time to ensure
> they can cope with a version number not in the YYYYMMDD format...
>
> If all goes well, and if the documentation is updated by then, the
> real 0.9 should be released in a couple of weeks.  In the meantime we
> should consider ourselves in a code freeze, so please don't submit new
> features or large changes, only small bug fixes will be allowed in.
>
> Thanks everybody for your help, it has been a long trip but we are
> getting there...
>
> --
> Alexandre Julliard
> [hidden email]
>
>
>


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Re: Release plans

Brian Vincent-2
In reply to this post by Alexandre Julliard
On 9/30/05, Alexandre Julliard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We also still need many documentation updates, so please consider
> helping with that.

Is anyone actually working on this?  I might have some time this
weekend, but I don't want to step on any toes.

-Brian


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Re: Release plans

Holly Bostick
Brian Vincent schreef:

> On 9/30/05, Alexandre Julliard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We also still need many documentation updates, so please consider
>> helping with that.
>
>
> Is anyone actually working on this?  I might have some time this
> weekend, but I don't want to step on any toes.
>
> -Brian
>

Yes, actually, but right after I volunteered I caught a really bad cold
that took me some time to get over. Today is the first day that I feel
healthy enough to think about complex things (but unfortunately my
boyfriend caught the bug from me, so I'm not getting back up to speed as
fast as I might want).

In any case, now that there's a new monthly, I can install it this
evening and start "doing things like a new user" to see what the process
currently looks like from that angle and what seems like it might need
to be written down.

So I'm here/back.

Holly


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Re: Release plans

Tony Lambregts
In reply to this post by Alexandre Julliard
Alexandre Julliard wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I just released 20050930, this should be considered the pre-0.9
> release, so please give it some good testing. In particular, please
> test the things that new users will encounter first, like the
> automatic .wine creation and winecfg.
>
This is fantastic.

I have a question though what should I call this release in bugzilla?

20050930
20050930 pre beta 0.9.0
0.9.0 pre beta (20050930)

other suggestions????

Obviously we should decide now how our release nameing structure is
going to be called and I did not want to just put it in without some
feedback...

--

Tony Lambregts


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re: Release plans

Dan Kegel-3
In reply to this post by Alexandre Julliard
Alexandre wrote:
> Bugzilla has had a good cleanup lately (thanks guys!) and most of the
> irrelevant bugs have been closed, so please have a look at the
> remaining ones to see if there's anything you know how to fix.

I'll be updating the page
  http://kegel.com/wine/qa/
with bugzilla statistics

State2005.09.29
Unconfirmed 836
New 403
Assigned 68
Resolved 421
Closed 1476


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Re: Release plans

Dan Kegel-3
On 9/30/05, Dan Kegel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'll be updating the page
>   http://kegel.com/wine/qa/
> with bugzilla statistics
>
> State2005.09.29
> Unconfirmed     836
> New     403
> Assigned        68
> Resolved        421
> Closed  1476

(Sorry 'bout that.  I'm not used to gmail's interface yet.)

Anyway, I'm trying hard to come up with a web page that
makes it easy for even non-wine-developers to help
triage bug reports.  It's changed a fair bit since I first
announced it; if any of you has time to review it, I'd
love to hear your feedback.

Thanks!


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
Dan Kegel wrote:
> Anyway, I'm trying hard to come up with a web page that
> makes it easy for even non-wine-developers to help
> triage bug reports.  It's changed a fair bit since I first
> announced it; if any of you has time to review it, I'd
> love to hear your feedback.

Hello Dan,

I've just chosen a bug that I'm triaging now.
It's *damn* hard :-).

You asked for feedback from non-wine-developers, so here's my 2 cents.

1.) Your web page is a little hard to read.
    Not sure why, maybe it's just that it's 5-guides-in-1 along with
code samples that makes it hard to get a proper overview.

2.) The bugzilla engine that you refer to is hard to use.
    Which is also witnessed in your page - you seem to do too much
explaining (also on referenced pages) about how to actually perform a
search in the Bugzilla.  It doesn't make your guides easier to follow
that the tools I have to learn on the way are (IMHO!) a bit horrible
:-/.

Try:
http://bugs.winehq.com/query.cgi

Search for NEW+UNCONFIRMED (default) and "Trillian".

Bugs 620 and 621 is found.

Consider:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2658

which both contains the word "Trillian" and has status NEW.

Why's it not found?  Yaarrrr!...

I've spent an hour staring at the search page before it struck me: I
have to put the string "Trillian" in the "Comments" field.

That's just horrid for newbies.

Another thing that would help the newbie experience is to, per
default, change the STATUS field to contain all color and flavors.

That said, it seems that Bugzilla maybe just in general has a horrible
interface.
Maybe there are much better solutions out there, which could also
spare you some precious time having to do those Bugzilla reports you
are currently making...

See for instance Trac, which has built-in reports, and where the user
can in a very simple way create h(is/er) own reports:
http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/report
(click "Custom Query" to try that out).

Or do a simple search, cleanly separated from the reporting function:
http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/search

Trac also sports an integrated Wiki where bugs and source code can be
cross-referenced.
(In Wine's case, Trac would have to point to Troy's SVN repo, since
Wine uses CVS.)

Example of what that's good for:
http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/timeline
The above bears resemblence to the 'modified in last 14 days' thingy
that you also do, at least if you tick only the 'Tickets' checkbox.

Well, just a suggestion :-)

Have several nice days
/me


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
I wrote:
> Maybe there are much better solutions out there, which could also
> spare you some precious time having to do those Bugzilla reports you
> are currently making...
>
> See for instance Trac, which has built-in reports, and where the user
> can in a very simple way create h(is/er) own reports:
> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/report

Hoop-ti-doo, they even have a bugzilla-2-trac conversion script!
http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/TracImport


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
In reply to this post by Alexandre Julliard
Alexandre Julliard wrote:
> We also still need many documentation updates, so please consider
> helping with that.

I'd like to help wherever I can.  Developer docs ok?

For instance, in:
http://www.winehq.com/site/docs/wine-devel/wine-debugger

the IDA debugger is hyperlinked several times.

I've searched Google for ever so long, and that file just isn't
anywhere around anymore.

If it's legal and anyone has a copy, it could be stuffed on the WineHQ web site.
(I'm serious - it's nowhere to be found!)

Otherwise the documentation should just be updated to mention some
other debugger, GoVest for instance.

Question is, how do I convey updates to the documentation to you guys?

Running 'diff' is not hard, but....
Where can I find the source for the documentation?

It's not in the SVN repo I'm pulling off Troy's server, it seems..
I assume you store it in a CVS repository next to the source code repo?
Where do I find it?

Apologies for being so noob :-p..


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Re: Release plans

Dan Kegel-3
In reply to this post by Molle Bestefich
On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Anyway, I'm trying hard to come up with a web page that
> > makes it easy for even non-wine-developers to help
> > triage bug reports.   [ http://kegel.com/wine/qa ]
>
> You asked for feedback from non-wine-developers, so here's my 2 cents.

Great!  Thanks for writing!

> 1.) Your web page is a little hard to read.
>     Not sure why, maybe it's just that it's 5-guides-in-1 along with
> code samples that makes it hard to get a proper overview.

Think it would help to break it up into multiple pages?
I'm afraid that would just make it harder to follow.

> 2.) The bugzilla engine that you refer to is hard to use.

I admit it takes some time to get used to, but I don't think
switching to something else is an option at the moment.

> I've spent an hour staring at the search page before it struck me: I
> have to put the string "Trillian" in the "Comments" field.
>
> That's just horrid for newbies.

True!  I updated my page to lead newbies through searching
for a particular app's bugs.   Have another look at
http://kegel.com/wine/qa/#tools
and let me know if it's any better now.

> Another thing that would help the newbie experience is to, per
> default, change the STATUS field to contain all color and flavors.

Agreed.  That's worth considering.  (Any Bugzilla administrators want
to comment?)
- Dan


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Re: Release plans

Brian Vincent-2
In reply to this post by Molle Bestefich
On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Question is, how do I convey updates to the documentation to you guys?

Tom described it here:
http://www.winehq.com/?issue=291#Docs%20Needed

-Brian


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
On 10/1/05, Brian Vincent <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Question is, how do I convey updates to the documentation to you guys?
>
> Tom described it here:
> http://www.winehq.com/?issue=291#Docs%20Needed

Oops.  Thanks!

If anyone has the copy of IDA that the current guide mentions, or know
whether it is functionally equivalent with some other product, please
speak up.


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Re: Release plans

Brian Vincent-2
On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If anyone has the copy of IDA that the current guide mentions, or know
> whether it is functionally equivalent with some other product, please
> speak up.

That's odd..

Anyway, the filename here has "demo" in it, so I'm not sure if this is
the full IDA Pro everyone has used in the past.  Uwe would probably
know since he seems to use/test it a lot.
http://www.download.com/IDA-The-Interactive-Disassembler/3000-2218_4-10361515.html?tag=lst-0-1

If that isn't it, maybe one of these will work:
http://www.themel.com/idafree.zip
http://www.dirfile.com/ida_pro_freeware_version.htm#

>From the IDA Pro page about why they don't host it:
"The distribution of our freeware version was using insane amounts of
bandwdith, several hundreds of them are delivered each day. Here is
for example an Analog report for Dec 2002 and Jan 2003

20013: 93.98%: 27/Jan/03 23:18: /freefiles/freeware.zip

One of our hopes in distributing this freeware version had been that
it would diminish the number "pirate" contacts. Unfortunately, this
has not been the case. That is why, after having delivered hundreds of
thousands of copies of IDA Freeware, we have decided not to host this
file anymore. Note that the IDA Pro freeware license doesn't change :
the freeware version remains freeware, and anyone willing to host it
is welcome to do so."

-Brian


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
In reply to this post by Dan Kegel-3
On 10/1/05, Dan Kegel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 1.) Your web page is a little hard to read.
> >     Not sure why, maybe it's just that it's 5-guides-in-1 along with
> >     code samples that makes it hard to get a proper overview.
>
> Think it would help to break it up into multiple pages?
> I'm afraid that would just make it harder to follow.

Perhaps - the page does cover a lot of topics that are only loosely
related.  (Eg. they all fold under 'helping out', but other than that
has little in common..)

On the other hand, the page is not awfully large, so it might hurt
more than it helps.

I dunno.  That's why I didn't give any concrete suggestions, hehe.
But if you insist, I'll try.  It'll probably be controversial,
remember that I'm totally newbie.

My first impression is that of the topics.  All of the topics are
rather long, which may be a necessity because the topics are
disparate, but I immediately just gave up on reading them and started
browsing the text instead.

Browsing the body text wasn't the easy way out that I had hoped for
either :-).  Maybe because the chapters are very close together (no
spacing above chapter headings), maybe because the code examples does
not clearly stand out as such (had they had a frame and a different
background color, my eyes would've skipped them in an instant).  But
most probably just because I didn't know what I was looking for, and
it all seemed kind of confusing.

Another thing that poked me in the eyes are the large amount of
hyperlinks on the page.  I immediately thought (when browsing the
text) that I'd never have the patience to go through all of those.
Since they seemed important to understand what's going on, I sort of
gave up early.  Maybe it would help to structure all the wine related
pages "better"?  Perhaps group together pages that have correlation,
make sure they're categorized under the same topic, etc., so less
links from your page is needed..  Dunno, just an idea, I don't have an
overview of the situation at all.

Lastly, I'll reiterate my opinion that the tools the Wine project
depends upon are inferior from a user interface point of view.
Bugzilla and CVS are probably superior in features to Trac and
Subversion, but Trac and SVN both win hands down when it comes to
usability.  The simple search page in Trac gives you a much lower
entry barrier for new people, as well does the
no-initialization-and-login-process-etc.-required checkout with 'svn
co <url> <dir>' compared to the 12-line CVS monstrosity you quote on
your page.

It might seem stupid to you developers, but I do believe that the
easier it is to use, the more people are going to use it.


> > 2.) The bugzilla engine that you refer to is hard to use.
>
> I admit it takes some time to get used to, but I don't think
> switching to something else is an option at the moment.

Why?
Seriously, seems like all the hard work has been done by everybody else.
There's a shake'n'bake conversion script, and the installation is a no brainer.
Setting things up takes half an hour.
Fitting it into the winehq web site design is probably more work, but
something a good web developer can overcome.  I'll volunteer if nobody
else knows HTML/CSS :-).

Has there been previous discussion?
If so, I'd appreciate a keyword or a pointer!

> > I've spent an hour staring at the search page before it struck me: I
> > have to put the string "Trillian" in the "Comments" field.
> >
> > That's just horrid for newbies.
>
> True!  I updated my page to lead newbies through searching
> for a particular app's bugs.   Have another look at
> http://kegel.com/wine/qa/#tools
> and let me know if it's any better now.

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about :-).
You've done a very good job, conveying in as few words as possible
exactly what the reader needs to do to make the Bugzilla work.

The problem is that the average reader is probably not going to take
the time.  (S)he's going to look at your page for 5 seconds, and
decide that any bug tracking system where the act of searching for an
entry containing 'trillian' requires first reading 10 lines of
introductory text and then pursuing a link called "Introduction to
using Bugzilla with Wine" is not worth their time.  Even the wording
in that last link is downright scary.  It's as if after reading the
introductory text to the search engine, there's a larger "Introductory
Document", and THEN you may be set to start experimenting with doing
freetext searches.  That's, hmm, overwhelming.

> > Another thing that would help the newbie experience is to, per
> > default, change the STATUS field to contain all color and flavors.
>
> Agreed.  That's worth considering.  (Any Bugzilla administrators want
> to comment?)

I hope!

<shameless plug>
Note that Trac has a google-ish Search page (1 box, although it does
support various keywords for advanced stuff) and an entirely different
page for doing queries against the database?  ;-).
</shameless plug ends>

Hrm, and last, I'd like to apologize for all the complaining that I
do!  Sorry...


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Re: Release plans

Francois Gouget-2
In reply to this post by Brian Vincent-2
On Sat, 1 Oct 2005, Brian Vincent wrote:

> On 10/1/05, Molle Bestefich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Question is, how do I convey updates to the documentation to you guys?
>
> Tom described it here:
> http://www.winehq.com/?issue=291#Docs%20Needed

WineHQ's CVS page should be updated with instructions on how to get the
documentation:

    http://www.winehq.com/site/cvs

Btw, why not put the Wine documentation in the same CVS as the Wine
sources, Website, the AppDB, etc. It seems like this would simplify
explaining how to get it a lot (and it would automatically work with
cvsup too).

--
Francois Gouget         [hidden email]        http://fgouget.free.fr/
                          "Utilisateur" (nom commun) :
         Mot utilisé par les informaticiens en lieu et place d'"idiot".

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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
In reply to this post by Brian Vincent-2
Brian Vincent wrote:
> Anyway, the filename here has "demo" in it, so I'm not sure if this is
> the full IDA Pro everyone has used in the past.
> http://www.download.com/IDA-The-Interactive-Disassembler/3000-2218_4-10361515.html?tag=lst-0-1

No-go, that version expires in 1998.

There's a newer (4.8) IDA Pro demo, but alas, it cannot be installed
under WINE CVS HEAD :-/.

Same goes for IDA Pro 4.3 freebie edition.

> If that isn't it, maybe one of these will work:
> http://www.themel.com/idafree.zip

Seems to run, but after that it just hangs.  Anyone?

> From the IDA Pro page about why they don't host it:
> "The distribution of our freeware version was using insane amounts of
> bandwdith, several hundreds of them are delivered each day.

Thanks!

> http://www.winehq.com/?issue=291#Docs%20Needed

Thanks!

Francois Gouget wrote:
> WineHQ's CVS page should be updated with instructions on how to get the
> documentation:
>
>     http://www.winehq.com/site/cvs

Thanks!

Where we're at now:
* None of the IDA versions actually both install and work under Wine.
* WDASM installs but, ehrr, it looks .. wrong.
* GoVest looks good, except that it cries about MapDebugInformation
and SymInitialize being stubs.
* Also, the documentation is horribly outdated and plain wrong in some places.

I've updated the docs to reflect the current state of affairs.
Patch forthcoming.....


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Re: Release plans

Holly Bostick
In reply to this post by Alexandre Julliard
Alexandre Julliard schreef:

> Folks,
>
> I just released 20050930, this should be considered the pre-0.9
> release, so please give it some good testing. In particular, please
> test the things that new users will encounter first, like the
> automatic .wine creation and winecfg.
>
> Even if you normally build from source, please for once try the
> binary package for your distro and check if you spot anything the
> packager is doing wrong.
>

I'm a Gentoo user, and when I installed the package, I received the
following rather alarming message at the end of the output (end of
compile and beginning of merge included so you can see where it falls,
but you'll easily be able to identify the message I'm talking about):

make[2]: Leaving directory
`/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/work/wine-20050930/tools/wrc'
../tools/mkinstalldirs -m 755
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/bin
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//us
r/share/man/man1
/bin/install -c   ./winemaker
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/bin/winemaker
/bin/install -c  -m 644  ./winemaker.man
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/share/man/man1/winemaker.1
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/work/wine-20050930/tools'
./tools/mkinstalldirs -m 755
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/share/aclocal
mkdir -m 755 -p -- /var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/share/aclocal
/bin/install -c  -m 644  ./aclocal.m4
/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/share/aclocal/wine.m4
/bin/true
*************************************************
*************************************************
The installed Wine libraries will not be found!
You can either:
   Add the line '/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/lib' to
/etc/ld.so.conf and run /sbin/ldconfig
   export
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930/image//usr/lib
*************************************************
*************************************************
man:
fixing man page symlink: wineg++.1.gz
removing old symlink: wineg++.1
gzipping man page: winedbg.1
gzipping man page: winegcc.1
gzipping man page: wmc.1
gzipping man page: wrc.1
gzipping man page: winebuild.1
gzipping man page: winemaker.1
gzipping man page: widl.1
gzipping man page: wine.1
gzipping man page: wineserver.1
gzipping man page: winedump.1
prepallstrip:
strip: i686-pc-linux-gnu-strip --strip-unneeded
strip: i686-pc-linux-gnu-strip --strip-unneeded
   usr/bin/wmc
   usr/bin/wrc
   usr/bin/widl
   usr/bin/wine
   usr/bin/wineserver
   usr/bin/winebuild
   usr/bin/wine-pthread
   usr/bin/wine-kthread
   usr/bin/winedump
   usr/bin/winegcc
   usr/bin/wine-preloader
   usr/lib/wine/mapi32.dll.so

There are a number of problems with this instruction:

1) Many users won't see it, since many users prefer not to watch their
output (certainly not for long compiles like Wine), and if they don't
have a long scrollback buffer like I do, the only thing they will see is
that the emerge completed successfully (so they will not do this step,
with unknown consequences);

2) This message is not an einfo (thus not present in the ebuild, it is,
of course in the emerge.log file for this emerge); it
appears to be generated by the compile process itself, so I'm unsure if
it's an ebuild problem or a global compilation problem. Further, I
have no indication whatsoever whether the Portage performed this
operation on my behalf or not;

3) The directory /var/tmp/portage/wine-20050930 does not exist on my
system (which is abnormal in and of itself, as directories from all
other Wine emerges do exist in /var/tmp/portage, as do directories for
all other applications I've emerged), and even if it did, if the emerge
completed successfully, there should be no files remaining in
/var/tmp/portage/whatever, since a successful emerge leaves only a /temp
directory containing a .keep file and a eclass-debug.log file (at least
that's what's left in all the other /var/tmp/portage/wine-version
directories I do have on my system). So I cannot even follow this
instruction after the emerge is completed (which would be my first
opportunity to do so), as the files I'm supposed to update my
environment with no longer exist at the location I'm asked to use.

I don't even know how to debug this-- or even if it needs debugging-- as
I don't know how to tell the difference between how Wine would act if
the libraries cannot be found because of a lack of this update, and how
Wine acts when the environment has been correctly updated.

I don't know if this is a flaw in the Gentoo emerge process, or the Wine
compilation, or even if it's a problem at all (maybe the environment has
been updated properly, but I got this message anyway, in error).

And if it needs to be fixed (i.e., if I do need to add information to
/etc/ld.so.conf), I don't know what to add.

At this point, I've got Wine installed, but haven't even tried firstrun,
as I don't know if my install is good or not, or whether I might cause
even more obfuscation by running wine, winecfg, or by attempting to
actually use Wine to install something.

Can anyone clarify what's going on here, and whether I'm worrying
unnecessarily or not?

Thanks,
Holly


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Re: Release plans

Marcus Meissner-4
In reply to this post by Molle Bestefich
> Where we're at now:
> * None of the IDA versions actually both install and work under Wine.

You can buy it. It then comes with a Linux console version.

Its however pretty high priced.

The Windows GUI version of IDA works fine, the Win32 console version
too. Don't remember the install anymore ;)

Ciao, Marcus


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Re: Release plans

Molle Bestefich
Marcus Meissner wrote:
> > Where we're at now:
> > * None of the IDA versions actually both install and work under Wine.
>
> You can buy it. It then comes with a Linux console version.
>
> Its however pretty high priced.

Hehe.  Guess that's not an option, then.

> The Windows GUI version of IDA works fine, the Win32 console version
> too. Don't remember the install anymore ;)

The broken installer is a show-stopper, as far as a debugging guide goes.
We can't very well tell people reading the guide that they should
install IDA when that in fact is impossible.

For now, I've referenced GoVest at the top of the page (although the
IDA references are still there).  If IDA starts working again, I'd be
happy to update the documentation to reflect this.

Other options?  Maybe mention in the guide how to manually extract the
IDA executables from the installer?  Anybody knows how this can be
accomplished?


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